EP48: Dukes of Hazzard History, Used Mercedes, Diesel F250

Joined by his co-host Mark Gammie, Jon and Mark delve into various topics, including the comparison of the 1970s movie ‘Moon Runners’ to ‘The Dukes of Hazard’, car character development, and notable actors. The duo also explores vehicle ownerships like the Ford Fiesta, Mercedes, and the appeal of Range Rovers, detailing personal experiences with repairs, expenses, and the joys of collecting vehicles. They talk about specific car models such as the Ford ST, E 55 AMG, and the legendary Powerstroke Diesel. Additionally, they discuss the environmental impact, reliability, and the market for classic and high-performance cars. The conversation closes with a look into future automobile purchases and the practicality of moped usage in small towns.

Notes

Jon Summers is the Motoring Historian. He was a company car thrashing technology sales rep that turned into a fairly inept sports bike rider. On his show he gets together with various co-hosts to talk about new and old cars, driving, motorbikes, motor racing, motoring travel.

Moonrunners, the prototype for the Duke of Hazzard
The cars as characters
Characters of Moonrunners vs Characters of DoH
Cooter as Jesus
Freiburger’s vignette on the shortage of Chargers in LA in the 80s
Honda CB1000 Hornet SP
Mercedes E55 repaired with duct tape
Fiesta ST MoT pass achieved with duct tape
Breaking a Fiesta ST rear undertray while finding somewhere for the baby to nap
The convenience of Ford
Tetris at J’s storage place
Mercedes E55 AMG as a starter classic
J’s E55 only good for breaking
Mercedes W210 and W211 buying advice
Wayne’s 2011ish E350 and sport mode
Perspectives on diesel cars
Lancia Lybra
Diesels won’t rev; J loves the E46 BMW at the redline
EVs: a less organic power delivery
Mercedes R129 SL600 as “a really complicated Corvette”
SL65 vs SL55
J likes a Mercedes CL, esp with an M156
J’s new F250 Powerstroke; judging trucks by the Marketplace ad
The Rampage Motorcycle lift
The Yoshi Pipe which hurt J
Truck buying mission creep; from a 2wd mini truck to a crew cab long bed diesel
Mitsubishi Mighty Max
The legendary Ford Powerstroke
Cadillac Escalades and the bad 6.2 liter motor
J’s SUVs conversion
J confession
Harry and Clarkson discuss The Best Range Rover
J wants an Audi V10 – they seem cheap next to V10 M5s
Desireable Audis of the last 20 years
‘02 Audi RS6 launch at Jack Barclay Bentley in Mayfair
The Audi RS2 which escaped J
Reflections on Audi understeer
Sierra Sapphire Cosworth
Moped lost key

Transcript

Crew Chief Brad: [00:00:00] John Summers is the motoring historian. He was a company car thrashing technology sales rep that turned into a fairly inept sports bike rider hailing from California. He collects cars and bikes built with plenty of cheap and fast and not much reliable. On his show, he gets together with various co-hosts to talk about new and old cars driving motorbikes, motor racing, and motoring travel.

Jon Summers: Good day. Good morning, good afternoon. It is John Summers the motoring historian with Mark Gamy. I’m back. You are back? Yeah. Yeah. Like you never I’m I’m not even sure if you have

Mark Gammie: been away. Yeah, I’m not aware of the audio you’re putting these out in so it could have been a listener might get confused.

That’s what I worry about.

Jon Summers: The poor blight probably is super confused. I’m in my new spirit of coming straight to the point. Um, have [00:01:00] you heard of or seen a movie called Moon Runners? No. If I told you it was produced, written and produced by Guy Waldron, does that name name mean anything to you? I’ve had the name, I’m not a hundred percent sure.

What I would tie it to this movie was the prototype for the Dukes of Hazard. Okay. It features moonshine running. Old man named Uncle Jesse who is looking after three worly teenager, 20 something types. They can drive really well. They make moonshine one’s a girl, the other’s a, but it is a sort of grittier version of, of the story.

So the pub is called The Balls Nest. Um, the sheriff is called Roscoe. Boss Hog owns a whorehouse as well. He’s not called Boss Hog. The Daisy character has run away from [00:02:00] Mississippi because her stepdaddy sold her to the richest man in town into marriage. This is set in the 1970s before the Dukes of Hazard, like 70, mid seventies.

I would say Judging by the the cars, the cars do not take. Center stage. Right. It’s very, I was thinking, I watched some of the movie one night and then I watched some last night and fell asleep, and then I was watching a bit more of it this morning before the, before the school run, I realized that clearly one of the changes between Moon Runners and the Dukes of Hazard was a decision to make the car a character.

Well, was the film successful? I, I, I don’t know. I should have done that before springing it on you as a topic was I, we discussed an agenda before we came on air, and then I thought of this topic as well. It’s ’cause when I looked at my pc, the movie was still, was still on and it made me, uh, it made me,

Mark Gammie: I mean maybe [00:03:00] that it would make sense that they were the sort of changes it had to make commercially to be more successful.

If you’ve had a dry run, you’re always gonna edit for better success on you. Oh, well

Jon Summers: it, it softened the edges, right? The, the Luke character. Is much more interesting in the movie. The Harder Core, uncle Jesse is interesting as well. Roscoe and Boss are both much better in the Dukes. Boss particularly, he has the white Cadillac and he’s a fat bastard, but he’s not charismatic and funny.

And I actually, it’s funny, I watched another movie with Sorel book, the guy that played Boss Hog, and was struck by how I, it was at the end of the movie before I was like, oh, that’s the dude that plays Boss Hog because he’s not actually that fat. He’s like padded himself to be Boss Hog. The fatness is the acting and then the cigar and the white suit and all of that.

The white Cadillac was there in [00:04:00] Moon runners. Duke is a bad guy, but in later episodes of the Dukes he, he’s almost is really too much Loki study here, but he’s a quasi-religious figure because you can come to him with your problems. And he will fix them miraculously. ’cause you have to agree that in numerous episodes the fixes he performs are nothing short of miraculous.

James Best made the Roscoe character come alive. The Roscoe character in the movie is quite thin. The other cops are more interesting characters than Roscoe. There’s a tobacco chewing cop in the opening scene where it dribbles down his chin. The Duke farm, they don’t make a big deal out of the Duke farm and the way that in the Duke’s a hazard before you go in the farm.

There’s always like the shot of the farm [00:05:00] itself in the nature with the white pickup truck and the Dodge Charger. They don’t make a big play on that. So I think visually, the Dukes, visually it was far more complete. It makes you, I guess, as a storyteller, it’s interesting because you see how Waldron crafted what he had.

To go to the big studios, you know, by having Baris do the car. So you have the beauty shot, so it walks and talks a little bit like Starsky and Hutch, which was the biggest show in the world when they were making the Dukes. I’m sure the car idea came from, you know, Baris did the Starsky and Hutch car, didn’t he?

Unless I’m mistaken, I edit myself out if I’m, but Barris did the General Lee and James Best brought the comedy element, the crashing into the water. That was the same, the car chase scenes, like on dirt roads where they’re bashing panels, that was was there as well, which is was of course how the film [00:06:00] cropped up in my feed in the first place.

And I was like, oh. Oh, I never watched this before. The brothers race a 55 Chevy, which barely features in, in the movie, although there is a scene of the racing and that car is named Traveler, which was General Lee’s horse. That’s how the car is positioned, but it is not the car, which is used all the time.

There’s a, like a fifties Chevy that’s used and clearly a bunch of beater cars, which the production team were able to like buy cheap in LA at that time. So, you know, the kind of thing that you could, you know, four door rear wheel drive, big sedans that they then abuse and clearly paint different colors and fit different body panels to, and all of the stuff that they would subsequently do to make the episodes of the Dukes with the rapid cadence that they could.

You know that you’d buy as many Plymouth Furies, as many Dodge [00:07:00] Chargers as you could. So actually, this is interesting, and I don’t know if this is true, but Dave Fryberger, the hot rod editor guy that did road Kill, who’s now doing his own YouTube channel, which I, which I watch. Pretty avidly. I’ve, I’ve gotta say fryer reckons, when he did a review a couple of videos ago, he did a review of all the cars that he’d owned and in doing, talked about the muscle car scene and the hot rod scene in Los Angeles in the eighties and nineties.

He’s maybe three or four years older than you were, you or I. So almost the same age, but little bit older than, uh, than than Mark Newton. And. He reckons the. He, he says, as, as I look through these, it’s noticeable. You know, he’s a Mopar guy to the core, so there were a lot of dusters. He has roadrunners, he’s had a roadrunner, an orange roadrunner that he bought when [00:08:00] he was 17 that he’s had, so he’s had B body cars, he’s had road, he’s had sea body cars as well as the little a, the little a body stuff.

What he never seemed to have was charges, and he addressed that about halfway through the video. And he says he thinks it was because the production company, Warner Brothers were buying up all of the charges that were used, charges that were for sale, and he goes on sale. And again, who knows if this is true.

He had a neighbor. Who was the guy who used to go and the line was, and tell the old ladies that their car wasn’t gonna be painted orange and trashed in next week’s show, which really was gonna be,

Mark Gammie: uh, I’d certainly heard that that con, that that show contributed to a death of those particular cars on the secondhand market.

Jon Summers: 329 cars is my understanding. That’s how many Dodge General leads there were. I, I mean, you can go to a website and [00:09:00] check that now, can’t you?

Mark Gammie: I was idly specking. I was bored last night, so I was, I, after the Mrs had gone beds, I went onto the Honda website and I was specking up CB 1000 Hornet sps. And the truth is, there’s not much to speck up about ’em. You either get the hornet or you get the Hornet sp with the Olin suspension and the, and you can have any color you want as long as it’s black and it looks fucking mean as in black.

Quite a fancy one, but I’m not sure I can justify 10 grand new, even though that is quite a bargain for that. Are they a parallel twin? It’s the blade engine from a few years ago. Oh, so it’s like 150 odd horsepower tuned for more torque, and it’s in a naked, like super nosy, really sharp oing suspension. 40 14th.

Reviewed it. I went and watched a bunch of reviews, Neve Z reviewed it and a, a bunch of other people reviewed it and that all of them were like. Chef’s kiss, it’s fantastic. Honda should be saluted. But [00:10:00] a lot of people are gonna say, oh well it’s not this and it’s not that. And it’s not, it’s not the latest that, and yeah, all of that’s true.

But what they’ve done is done a bargain basement, bits from the catalog and delivered a real belter of a, of a bike for not a lot of money. You had me, uh, it’s got the old fire blade motor.

So what’s the latest with the, what else we got on here? What’s the latest with the Mercedes? Well, I was gonna ask you. Oh this. Sorry. This is my own, this is my note. I mean, I can tell you the latest, I’ve just been to pick

Jon Summers: mine up from storage in Lodi where it sat for a year. Yeah. And it’s been out and I’ve been driving it around again.

But the weather has taken a toll on the roof. So now basically has a hole around one quarter of the. Sunroof. So the sunroof is there, and then there’s a sort of hole around the front edge. So I was like, you know, it’ll be no problem. I’ll put rust cleaner on it. I’ll put masking tape on it, [00:11:00] you know, duct tape.

I bought the best duct tape I could, and Dana agreed that it did look less terrible. Come across the street, right, which was my main goal in, in doing it, where the carbon fiber sort of look sticker on the, a pillar of the driver door where that had come off and had rusted underneath and it looked terrible.

I held a piece of cardboard against the glass and I just hid it with the black rust inhibiting spray. That’s how

Mark Gammie: the pros do

Jon Summers: it. Yeah, yeah. Totally do. Totally, totally fixed, right? Fixed. I was, I was done in about 15 minutes. Right. It was masterly, masterly craftsmanship. So Ollie and I drive into K one go-karting, and he’s like, what’s that noise?

And I’m like, Hmm, it could, could be. Could be my roof repair. Working its way loose and flapping around. That’s definitely what it looks like.

Mark Gammie: It’s, uh, a any tape based repairs on [00:12:00] like the, we, Angie’s St. Went into the garage for a MOT. She’d had a little conant with a car park with a one of those orange, those yellow painted curbs in multi-story car parks, which you’ve gotta be a bit careful for against.

She hadn’t been to this particular multi-story and she was quite stressed. So she got a bit of an incident with one, a fra car, should we say. The, the left hand side, the, the near side curbside of affair, uh, was, has been a bit sort of pulled away on the side skirt, so I sort of bd it. Um, with some C tape, and that lasted a couple of journeys and then it went in for an MOT and the Ford dealership rang up and went, ah, we need to fix a couple of things on this before it goes through.

I went, yeah, yeah. Okay. Expecting. And they said, well, the wing mirror like needs a, like a little glass in it or something for the indicator. I was like, yeah, yeah, fine, do that. So they fixed that. And then they said, oh, we need to reattach the side skirt. I, okay. And I’m thinking, well, how, how much is that?

And they, oh, like 20 quid. I’m like, oh, whatever. No problem. Just do that. Then it arrived back and I walked around and looked at it. They lo and behold, they [00:13:00] had gaffer taped it as well just with different color gaffer tape, and it was attached. It last did one day until the next day, and then came loose. So my gaffer taping is better than Ford original gaffer

Jon Summers: taping.

Well, my ST was brand new. Ollie was a baby and was that age where you have to like nap. And I went with him to a hot rod show, but it was that age where he was so young that I hadn’t like coordinated it properly. So by the time we got there, he needed to have his nap. But I was like, you know, no harm, no foul.

It doesn’t matter that we got here at noon and I’m not gonna be able to go in until three. You know, this is what it is. When you have a baby of that age, this is the life that you live. So, you know, he just like in that, well. I was feeling that as I backed the fiesta into a spot which had a high curve that I hadn’t seen and broke the clips that hold the back bumper in place, I like, oh man, the, the plastic’s like [00:14:00] an egg.

And once it’s broken. Like you like hit it in the wrong way, it cracks, and once it’s cracked, there’s no fixing it. The best thing you should do is just not worry about it.

Mark Gammie: Yeah. Well, I mean, what I found, I can get another one for 45 quid from a car that’s had an impact on the other side. Then you have to paint it unless, no it comes in.

Remember it’s, remember it’s Ford St. They only came in like three colors. Most of them were in that blue. So, you know, I can just get one on eBay. Pre-done.

Crew Chief Brad: Yeah. Oh

Jon Summers: yeah. To all those people. Like all these rover loving people on YouTube. This is why people love Ford. This is why people love Ford. ’cause not only are they good to drive, but when things happen, the fix is easy and cheap.

Relative to your experience with your

Mark Gammie: BMW. Oh yeah, for sure. I mean, look, you might have to put in a little bit of effort on the basis that. When it needed a new exhaust, I rang up the dealership and said, right, I need a new rear is like [00:15:00] midsection back. I think I said this before and it was 1300 quid. I was like, not with fitting bro.

And he was like, that is with fitting. Sorry, that is without fitting. I was went fuck sake. So the whole new mill tech system was 500 quid. Okay. To just get, you know, different stuff, you know, as you upgrade, as you, as you, um, through the lifestyle of the car. But yeah, and absolutely it’s always been a a, a

Jon Summers: benefit.

I mean, mine only has 21 K on it and I’m, there’s an air filter over there that I still need to fit to it. It’s over in Lodi and I’ve juggled Lodi. Now the Mercedes is out, the fiesta’s in, but I’ve also put a bunch of bikes in so the Mercedes can’t go back in. How I get rid of a bunch of bikes. I’ll tell you how Tetris it is.

Last time I was in there, when I pulled the door down to close it, it caught on the bike’s handlebar. And I had to do the door back up so I could go back outside so I could stand by the bike to pull the thing down so I could lean on the bike. So it went away from the handlebar and then when the door went down, I could then climb over the [00:16:00] motorcycle.

So yeah, so I dunno what I’m gonna do going forward ’cause it’s sort of over there, but I couldn’t bear it sitting around in the street. Like just getting toileted by the weather.

Crew Chief Brad: Mm-hmm.

Jon Summers: You know, the Mercedes is hardly any better because it’s with the best will in the world. You know, that spraying a bit of rust once they’ve started rusting

Mark Gammie: it just living by the seaside and stuff, you know.

Jon Summers: Well, I dunno what I’m gonna do with it because, uh, for a hot minute there, it was worth quite a lot of money. Because I think we, we talked in the last pod about these people who believe that peak car was like the year 2000. You know, reason I love it is that it’s a great car. It is great to drive and super affordable.

And so as if you are looking for a starter classic that you could actually use every day. That kind of car is a terrific example of it. Only 70,000 of them made. But here’s the thing, right? In the time since I’ve had it, the price shot, the prices on them shot up in the pandemic and really fell off quickly.

I think at its [00:17:00] peak, I think I maybe could have got like seven and a half grand for mine. I think now it’s worth like under $2,000. I think it’s a breaker because it’s in such bad condition, superficially like bodily and gamy I know of in this neighborhood, four other cars of exactly the same age, two of which are in superb condition, and two other of which are in much better condition than mine.

So you’ve literally, it is that beta Jaguar that I always wanted. And I just need to accept that it is perfect as it is. And just let it carry on. Just slow the decay. That’s what I’m trying to do. That that is indeed what

Mark Gammie: you’re trying to do.

Jon Summers: Which is why I’m street

Mark Gammie: parking it in saline air, right? I mean, yeah, it’s gonna take money, isn’t it?

I mean, look, I’m just looking, you know, because the reason I hadn’t, I [00:18:00] wanted to ask about your Mercedes, which is why I had clicked, of course, Mercedes on our five point bullet list for the agenda was also talking about my. A, my sort of potential purchase of Mercedes, which is much more loose in terms of the, the budget.

You know, 10 grand, not a million miles ’cause it’s gonna get used. But automatic obviously, which is part of the reason I just want something to waft around in. But again, it’s the difficulty because I thought whilst we’re chatting, I’ll check on Autotrader, how many E 50 fives there are. And there’s a eight grand one with eight, 6,000 miles and a 99

Jon Summers: plate because they changed them in my jet.

Mine was current 98 to 2002. Yeah, this

Mark Gammie: is a 99 plate. Looks like yours. Okay. Yeah, there, you’re right. There are later ones. The sort of oh oh 3, 0 4 ones. Well, those, those later ones,

Jon Summers: uh, are supercharged. Yeah, they’re like 507 horsepower instead of 355. It’s like a, a meaningful increase in horsepower and decrease in [00:19:00] reliability.

Mark Gammie: I mean, what I will say is there’s an, this is why I like the idea of getting a Mercedes. There’s an oh four plate E 55, so the later one with 220,000

Jon Summers: miles. For five and half. Yeah, I’ve seen ones like, this is what I was gonna say. You limiting it to 60,000 miles. I, I understand why you did that. I’d rather take a hundred thousand mile car that’s been owned by one or two dudes that’s got a service history this thick.

And when you meet the dude, he reminds you of my dad. I’d take that car with a hundred thousand miles on it before I took a 50,000 mile one from a dealer where there was no history. Yeah,

Mark Gammie: no, I hear you. I mean, what the thing is like, I like, I mean, I’m just looking at this E 55 in black. I like it. Eight grand for 86,000 miles on 99 plate six

Jon Summers: miles.

Um, I understand why you won 60 because my whole challenge, and this is, that’s the thing, this is why I bought another truck. I’ve had that tundra a year and I put 20,000 miles on it in addition to whatever other miles I’ve put on other stuff.

Mark Gammie: That’s the [00:20:00] challenge. Yeah, it’s gonna have to wear daily use.

So like not loads of nodes in a world of video conferencing calls and stuff, and you know, I’m gonna get in the train to some appointments, no doubt if they’re in London. But at the end of the day, you know, I’m gonna have to toot up em down the highways and highways a bit. Now look, this, I don’t wanna have millions of cars, but moving to the new place, there is a room for about.

Five or six, so I could certainly have an extra one. And I like the idea of buying something like that E 55, that I actually sort of wouldn’t mind. It can just stay, you know, it can just find a place and where 10,000 miles a year, not 20,000 miles a year, but on the other end, realistically with your head, you should just buy a middleweight, three liter boo ring, whatever box Mercedes with all toys so you can have a massage butt crack and not care about killing it.

That’s what I really should do. And ventilated. But

Jon Summers: the other, the other thing to think about is, is, is, uh, you know, Wayne had, uh, E three 50 and it was maybe a 20 [00:21:00] 11, 20 12, something like that, when they had that E-Class, when they had that sort of squared off, like fender line and square, little square headlights.

At the time, I was a bit like, why’d you buy that way? And didn’t really understand why he, why he bought it. In sport mode. It was incredible. It was absolutely incredible and I think that’s what you have to understand is that like a 2012 E three 50 in sport mode is better than a 2005 A MG in sport mode is, if that’s your.

You know, I, I don’t know. It might well be, it’s just that the generation of, you know, the newer cars are really great in sport mode. Is, is I guess what I’m saying. The other thing is, is that i, I, that you can do, that I envy you for is diesel. Yeah. But like, I can’t. Yeah, I mean, I, I won’t let me, I, I, I un I understand why you, you, I think it’s attractive to me [00:22:00] ’cause it’s like if there were 3, 3, 5 i’s, and 3, 3 5 D’s both available here.

I would want the 3, 3, 5. I, and I understand why you would want the three. It’s just the D appeals ’cause you can’t get ’em.

Mark Gammie: Yeah, no, I understand. Forbidden and all that sort of thing, but I fucking hate diesel.

Jon Summers: Yeah. Um, I was telling Ollie I shall share with you as well, the moment I had that I hate Diesel moment group and I took a vacation together.

It was like a weekend break to. Monaco, or I can’t remember where we flew to, but either way, we ended up renting a car and driving from somewhere to somewhere to Monaco or something. Either way, I went to Monaco with Greek. I walked the Monaco Grand Prix circuit with Greek. We had this Lancia Libra rental car, which, uh, of course you did.

And, and on the drive there was a climb [00:23:00] and an overtake, and I went to do the overtake and, you know, got alongside right at that moment where a gas powered car finds a bit more power to complete the overtake. And this thing just bounced off the rev limiter. And add nothing. And then I 500 revs. About 4,000 revs.

Yeah. Yeah, yeah. And, and so now I’m fighting for another gear and now it’s out of Turbo Boost and now I’m about to get head on and, and that was the moment where I was like, I fucking hate diesel. Right. That was the, that’s the standout moment to me with, with

Mark Gammie: people that is perfectly acceptable. Like they, they’re not reving like, it’s like, yeah, like talk, talk, whatever.

But like, you know, the, the talk, it just, it just runs outta puff in a really

Jon Summers: disappointing way. The running out of puff in a really disappointing way. Is it the oomph when you first come in, the gas is lovely. Oh, that’s nice. The running out of puff in a really disappointed way. Harley’s are a little like that.

Yeah. [00:24:00] Yeah, I can see that. I mean, I love it. I, I love it. And I, and you know, I just bought this diesel truck. I’m enjoying both, I really enjoyed the Virin bikes and the torque. I love, I love the torque and for an American environment, I, I absolutely, I absolutely get it. Everything has its place. So a lot of talk.

What I really love is a high revving, naturally aspirated gas motor. And here I am eulogizing the one in the BMW. Um, but before that area, there’s an area where you can really red line the BMW in like a couple of gears. He can, like any, you know, he’s got 180 horse. He’s not a fast car, so, you know, out of the turn, second and third, you know, and then into the, you know, it sounds awesome.

That rush to the red line, that rush to the six grand, six and a half grand red line. It sounds awesome. It’s everything that makes cars fun and, and great. And, and if you don’t believe it, that’s what’s missing [00:25:00] with electric cars, that the zing is not. Accompanied by the same sense of of theater, it’s the rock show without a sound.

I wanna say something else as well, and I wonder what your thoughts are on this. I feel like the whole way electric vehicles, uh. Launch that whole like launch experience and the building up of speed that feels completely different in electric vehicles to me. And, and for a long time. Well, for a long time, but I spent a while, I had a ride in Rivian fairly recently and I had that thought and I said as much to the owner and he was like, oh, there is fully a difference.

You know, there is fully a difference. This is a less organic power delivery.

Mark Gammie: It’s u Well, it’s, but it’s uniform. It doesn’t build it, it’s, there’s no sort of like a appreciable feel of the rev range in the same way. You know, there’s no power band. It’s all power band. It’s [00:26:00] just sort of a uniform shove. It’s a shit ton of shove.

And an exciting shove and thrilling in its way. Absolutely. And faster, you know, most of the time in a straight line. Yeah. But it comes with a shit ton of weight. You need to drive the fucking things for about 20 years before you really pay for the, the actual environmental cost of buying them. So I’ll stick with the old cars and not ever need a new car.

Yeah, that’s the greenest thing I can do. Speaking of which, one of the things that came up on the list was like SL 60 and stuff, which is extremely green in me to get like a V 12 Cabrio.

Jon Summers: Okay, so I would urge with Mercedes, the A MG products because they do have that sort of muscle carry kind of edge to them, which is super, super appealing.

The, the V twelves, I do feel like a, some of it was everyone at the golf club as an SL 500, so I’ll get a [00:27:00] 600. They did offer extra horsepower and I did drive one. A long time ago when I did the smogging, I got to be friends with a guy who did work on car, on my cars for me, and he was doing some work on an SL 600, and he said it’s, it’s like, it’s basically like a really complicated Corvette.

And that, I mean, sort of, yeah, because the thrust was kind of similar and it was a two-seater and it was an automatic, and it wasn’t floppy, but it also wasn’t your Nissan three 50 in terms of, of how it felt. Um, the thing with the,

Mark Gammie: the SL 60 fives and stuff is they’re just way too expensive. But on the other hand, if you look at SL 50 fives.

There’s loads of ’em.

Jon Summers: Yes. And, and I think the, uh, the important thing is the a m genus. Yeah. The, the other, the other one that I like that’s a bit of a, not on the radar, but there’s a lot of them are, [00:28:00] there’s, there’s a few of them around are the cls, the coupe ones. Mm-hmm. They do a CL 65, and I think because of that, the CL 60 threes.

From the era where they were doing that. M1 60 legendary 6.28 grand red line guy. Mm-hmm. That motor, you could get that in a CL and the CL 63, I guess because you know, most sort of collector types would rather do the 65, the CL 60 threes. They always seem pretty good. Value to, to me, I can’t recall. Yeah.

I’m just looking at one here.

Mark Gammie: There’s a nice black one, an oh eight. With 67,000 miles on the clock for 15 grand. Yeah, I like the no C pillar, B pillar as

Jon Summers: well. See if you look at, that’s nice. If you look at like a C 63 or an E 63 that’s been owned by somebody who’s actually like driven it, anybody who bought the CL 63, that [00:29:00] strikes me as like an older person and somebody who bought that as like a second car.

It just, I just feel like a CL is likely to have been more used in a gentler way than E class or certainly a C class.

Mark Gammie: I I’m feeling it. I’m feeling it. This person’s taken panes to take all the pictures outside of a country pub,

which is, and let me just tell you, it’s a thatched pub.

Jon Summers: I was thinking as I, as I was dealing with the purchase of this, this F two 50 that I’ve bought recently, that’s a really nice, I I, I was thinking about how. You do judge on the ad, right? This truck was quite a long way away because I sort of, normally I like have a short list and I, but I didn’t do that this time.

I just was like, I’m just gonna call about that particular, I had two that I was gonna look at. One of them, the ad wasn’t working properly, the phone number didn’t seem to be [00:30:00] working, so I was just like, fuck that one. It’s in fucking Las Vegas anyway, which is. Seven hours away from San Francisco. So that’s a massive logistical operation to look at the, yeah, buy the truck and get the truck home.

This one, um, was in Modesto only. Two hours away. So a, a much more, uh, realistic kind of prospect. In the pictures, you could tell how straight the panels were. The ad was really well written, and if you just compare that with it’s, it’s like, it was only after I’d like negotiated with the people and bought the truck that I was like, you know, part of the reason why I bought this was because the ad was actually well written.

So I knew that I was gonna be able to have a proper conversation with somebody, the kind of person who photographs. A car half covered by a tar paulin and then says, five grand. No negotiation. Don’t waste my time. Is that really somebody you wanna be doing business with? I’m gonna give money to that person when you’ve not you.

[00:31:00] You know what I mean? It just becomes when, when you are just on the shitter surfing, you’re like, Ooh, you know, I’ll, I’ll like that one. When you’re actually. Got your hand on the dollars and you’re about to place the call, suddenly at that point you begin to think much more clearly about what you were, yeah, yeah.

No, that’s a fair comment. So there’s F two 50 is a Powerstroke Diesel seven three Powerstroke diesel. It is currently wearing 465,800 miles. Original transmission, original wheels. Two owners, dude, like trucks are held to a different standard when we first got in it, right? Firstly, Ollie loves it, loves, loves, loves it, right?

It’s so totally the truck that he wanted. Um, you know, he was like, you know, I didn’t wanna say, but the Toyota really wasn’t doing it for me. But this, this is like. It really is as far as I can make out [00:32:00] a pretty straight old truck. Um, I’ve not done a lot of miles in it yet. It leaks from the front hub and of course the rebuild on that, which I, you know, budgeted a certain amount in for it’s costing, you know, there’s a massive Bay Area tax on that being done and the Ford guy doesn’t want to touch it ’cause it’s like four wheel drive.

And so the way I led up to this was. Earlier in the year, I bought a rampage motorcycle lift. We may have even talked about it on the pot. You are nodding. That means you remember the video of the, the way that it works, where you, you sort of, yeah, there’s a chalky part and you put the front wheel in the chalky part and you strap the bike down as if it was in the bed of the truck already.

And then you connect the winch. The winch motor to the battery of the truck. And then you use the winch and the winch winches the thing up [00:33:00] in a sort of quite magical motion into the other part of the ramp, which is fixed in the bed of the truck. And you know, then you, and the original thought was, was this is gonna go in the bed of the tundra.

But the Tandra’s such a nice example, and I didn’t want to drill the bed and it means taking the tailgate off because the rampage will fit in an eight foot bed, but it sticks out of six foot bed. You, what people do is just take the tailgate off, which is fine, right? But it means that all the time I’d have the thing sticking out as well.

It like sticks out a foot. So you’ve sort of got this like it’s about a foot wide. And, you know, a couple of inches, half, that’d be fucking annoying. It would be. ’cause you bash into stuff all the time and people will bash into it and you know, so I was just like, well, so then I caught myself surfing like the cheapest $2,000 trucks that I could, that were low.[00:34:00]

So like, you know, like Mazda, Mitsubishi, mighty Maxes and Mazda B 22 hundreds, you know, those kind of, but two wheel drive ones, so they’re super low. ’cause the name of the game for me, I should have backed up and, and, and said this was, uh, you were aware that earlier in the year I was loading a CB 900 with John and it fell on me.

It was the one with the Yura pipe. And as we were going up onto the trailer, if you imagine where it goes up the ramp, so where it comes off the ramp and into the bed of the truck, there’s a sort of low point, isn’t that kinda light? And the exhaust grazed at that point it was this aftermarket yoshimura and basically it rocked up on the exhaust and fell towards me.

And John was just like, I can’t hold it. So like, let it go. So anyway, so E either way it twisted up my back. So this led to, we were talking earlier before we came on air about my hip being like all janked up. That’s what was [00:35:00] the beginning of, you know, me being an additional level of junkiness of my, uh. Of my back.

So I was like, I’m not fucking up my back moving these fucking crappy motorcycles anymore, right? I’m just gonna solve this once and for, so hence the rampage where, you know, you push a button and it’s, and it’s done. But you know, as I say, the truck, which the tundra was meant to cover too many bases, and I’m just like, ah, that’s not gonna work.

So, uh, I need a truck with an eight foot bed. So I was looking for a two wheel drive truck ’cause it was gonna be low, but then it was like, you know what, if the rampage is going in, it could be four wheel drive. I just get a decent, decent truck. Then you’re like, well you could do like the Mitsubishi Mighty Max or something like that.

Like something little and sensible. But what you could do is, is do the like million mile capable turbo diesel and do the turbo diesel thing, which you’ve never really done. You know, don’t have any diesel vehicles here. We were just talking about how I’m quite attracted to diesel partly. ’cause [00:36:00] you know you can’t get the turbo diesel cars here.

I’d love a turbo diesel jaguar or a turbo diesel Audi that I would definitely, I know you’re wrinkling in your nose. It’s ’cause you get ’em, we can’t get ’em here. So it’s quite, it’s, it’s quite a piece. So this is lurking at the end of the street there. It is enormous ’cause it’s a crew cab. It really is huge When you fire it up, when it’s in like open cycle, it smells the way.

Do you remember the buses used to smell in Plymouth, that diesel smell, that like absolute hardcore, unfiltered diesel smell? It’s, it’s that, it’s, it’s, it’s really that. There’s a lot of stuff online about how legendary the power stroke is. If you Google it, there’s all sorts of, you know, user groups and, and all this sort of thing.

It really is, uh, uh, and part of the following is like the mileage, right? But part of the following is around the fact that there is a very distinctive exhaust note, and I can’t believe I’d missed it [00:37:00] before I bought the truck. You know what? It’s in that moment where you start it and when you’ve bought a very high mile.

Fucking cheap old truck every time you put the key in it for the first. 15 or 20 times, you’re not really sure whether it’s gonna start, are you? You’re a bit worried. So when it fires up, there’s always a feeling of joy when it fires up with the way these power, this power stroke, seven, three fires up and it’s absolutely unmodified.

It’s not, you know, because you can turbot charge the crap out of them. Like Marx has about 800 horsepower. And that’s with like a reliable kind of a, a tune on it. Obviously not a California smog legal tune. And that’s another thing about it. This thing just passed smog. Unbelievable. So awesome, awesome, uh, piece of kit.

Not tested the four wheel drive yet. He told me. That works. The windows all work, central lock. It doesn’t, I made my payment to, I think the [00:38:00] company was called, well, I modify it for privacy and, and, and all of that, but it was something similar to Circle M Hog callers. That was the, uh, so that’s what it’s, it’s, it has a gooseneck in the bed.

Gooseneck hitch in the bed. So it was probably hauling, you know, those kind of of,

Mark Gammie: but like for that sort of thing, you don’t want a high rev engine. You want grunt low reving, just reliable, you know? Yeah. F yeah. Sort of movement. And that’s what they are great at that shit.

Jon Summers: They absolutely are. Yeah. Well that’s why, that’s why I wanted this, this deep Yeah, yeah.

For this kind of thing. And, and the idea is now the, the ramp can stay in it all the time. And when I do a trip like the Oregon one that I just did, I can always take a bike with me and it could just sit in the ramp. And anytime I want to get out and ride, I can just get out and ride. And the. Tundra can still be used as a sort of luxury car way that we have been using it for.

Now, you might say, well, why don’t you just buy an SUV? [00:39:00] And that’s probably what we should have done, but you know, yeah. Fuck SUVs. I probably didn’t want an SUV, so we didn’t buy an SUV. I’d have done an S suv. I was looking at Escalades. I was looking at 6.2 liter Escalades before, oh, of course you were 6.2 liter.

Of course you were. Like, well, why would you have the five three when you’re, could have the six two for God’s sake? Why put up with 300 in change horsepower? And you could have 400, but that motor un reliable. Apparently. That’s why I was often, ’cause Daniel was quite into the idea of an Escalade, but then I read that the motors blow up, so I was like, no.

Yeah, I, I mean, I don’t like the SUVs. I just, you know, for England, for England, it it, I mean for here it’s a totally different thing. Yeah, yeah, yeah. So they still

Mark Gammie: suck.

Jon Summers: It depends,

Mark Gammie: which they still can suck compared to a proper car is my point. You know, it’s a better format if they’re too high, they’re too big, they’re too bulky.

They’re compromises.

Jon Summers: Yes, yes. I, I, I [00:40:00] feel all of that, but the whole like commanding driving position overrides all of that, doesn’t it? I guess. I mean the minority. I, I resisted the SUV thing for many, many years and then when I got that Durango, I was like, oh, I kind of get it. I kind of get why people like,

Mark Gammie: oh no, I mean, I’m sure I would be disarmed by and, and would enjoy driving them.

I tend to enjoy driving everything. So, I mean, you know,

Jon Summers: so I’m gonna make a confession now, mark. I’m gonna confess something, which you might find appall. We may not even be able to be friends after I say this. I might, I’m hovering over the hangup button. Yeah. Yeah. It’s gonna change the friendship of, of many decades, but I, I’ve kind of got a hankering for Range Rovers all the time.

They knew I’ve no fucking interest. Right. A knackered one.

Mark Gammie: Oh, well, okay. So Harry. Harry on Harry’s garage, Harry Metcalf of Evo Fame and Fortune did an interview where if you watch one of his, his, his re his [00:41:00] last couple of years, they, he did an, uh, a 20 or 30 minute video with him and Clarkson of all people sitting on the back of their range rovers talking to each other about why they bought the best one.

And they talk about all the different ones and why the ones that they’ve got are the best ones and that you should get that. So if you are interested, that’s what you, that’s the video for you.

Jon Summers: Alright. Because literally, I’m, I’m in that place where I’ve said before, after I bought that Tundra, I, I was over sensible.

It was no more sensible, it was full stupid from there. Hence, the crew cab half a million mile diesel pickup to simply to move motorcycles. Like that really was

Mark Gammie: pretty, uh, intense. Like, I mean, this is the problem. Yeah, we, I’ve, you and I have never been able to stay on Target. You know, we start with a perfectly reasonable agenda of 10 grand and like 60,000 miles of Mercedes to just wear boring miles.

And then I ended up looking at this 15 grand, CLS 55, and then thinking, well, [00:42:00]

Crew Chief Brad: you know,

Mark Gammie: you know, I like the no B pillow and it’s got a massive sunroof. So the whole thing had been feeling like a Cabrio the whole time. Like, you know, sort of that would be quality. So,

Jon Summers: yeah. And, and that occasional backseat counts for so much.

And the other thing about ’em is in terms of the cls, particularly the carpark presence, they’re like ageless. They’re completely, I like the side swoop. I definitely do.

But you know, these awesome search engines where you can just put in V 10 and Audi. And then just stack rank, then V 10 Audi sedan and stack rank cheap to expensive because that V 10 motor, those Audis had, it was Lamborghini derives. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Same one with the guy. So ab Well, okay, Eric’s like if they break down all the time.

’cause the price is on them. Dude, if you, the price is on, uh, uh, uh, on like Audi [00:43:00] V 10, like an SA or an S six. That was the, the models that they went into versus, uh, E 60 BMW. M five V 10, the M five is worth way more. And any E 63 is worth way more as well. ’cause the E 63 and the M five, both gun classic cars, the Lamborghini motor Audis are cheap now.

Eric’s like, oh, we had one in the club. We had one, like a guy brought one to a track day or something in it. It like blew up and was broken all the time. And I’m like, well. You took it to the track, but yeah, just people seem underwhelmed by them, but I’m like, how bad could it be? Could you not put the Lamborghini like exhaust kind of on the Audi, like, I’m, I’m fascinated by that.

I kind of want one. There was one I Googled, one up, I, I Googled on Auto Tempest, which is like a, you know, search aggregation engine for, for, for cars, which is kind of useful for America. Not com no, it’s not thorough, I wouldn’t say, but it’s, it’s pretty good. It [00:44:00] found me, uh, like an eight grand S six in Kansas City.

Right. This is like 120,000 mile cars and there’s no like consumer law here. It’s, you know, you drive off the forecourt, whatever happens, it’s your problem. Good luck. Yeah. Yeah. Sold as seed as they say. You know, there’s, there’s that to contend with, to say nothing of the logistics of, a lot of ’em are on the east coast as well, and I, I don’t want an east coast car.

I’d rather have like a. Non rusts carve. But yeah, I’ve thought about those as well. It’s just when it, who would I get to fix it?

Mark Gammie: The difficulty I have with them is, again, in my sort of view of Audis, there are only a handful that were worth having. You know, objectively there’s the RS four, there was R eights, there’s the TT RS 3.2, and that’s about it.

Because most of the other ones were too nose heavy and like under steer and I fucking hate under steer. [00:45:00]

Jon Summers: Yeah. Well, that’s my objection to them. I think now as I’m looking at the e sixties being like 15, 20,

Mark Gammie: well my, my old boss, um, well, my, my sales director at Fastnet had the, the TT RS 3.2 and loved it, and then he swapped that out for an RS six.

He said he wished after about six months, he rec, he said he reckoned the tt. RS 3.2 was a better car and more fun. What year? RS six? Yeah, it would’ve been about

Jon Summers: oh five to 10, something like that. Oh, okay. Because Eric’s thing is the, the producer, Eric the, instead of talking about the V 10, he was like that first generation.

Was it the RS six? Yes. Yes, it was, um, the first generation RS six because I remember that car launching because I was at, it was the end of my time in tech in Britain. I was working in London and we. Rented. I don’t remember if we did it or if a partner [00:46:00] company did it or whatever. There was some fucking shindig at Jack Barclay’s Bentley dealership in fucking Mayfair.

Literally, you were the dealership overlooks Sir James’s Park with Buckhouse. Just up there, just just up the road kind of thing. And it was the launch of that, um, RS six Audi, and that was the first time I looked at an Audi and thought, bloody hell, I might want one of those more than a BMW. You know, it, it really, I felt like that and in some ways.

Styling wise, you can argue that was peak Audi. ’cause the car they had was the sedan. And you remember the way the tail lights were on that era of really, uh, distinctive great looking car.

I don’t know. ’cause ’cause I’m, I, I’ve an, I’ve an Audi one that got away story ’cause I was offered. Remember when? Same era as as this probably same, same time [00:47:00] I worked with a guy in the city who did historic group sea racing of all things he did like this bar 24 and and so on. And I guess I always felt like I should have made an effort to get close to him, but he was a bit of an asshole.

So that was, you know, as so many successful salespeople are. So that impeded me, you know, his general need. To show off to me constantly, uh, you know, kind of impeded my bill. Dick Measuring gets tiring. Dick measuring, got real tiring with, with this dude where wherever you are, your life was cool, but you sadly weren’t.

He offered me, he had an RS two. Do you remember those? They were only wagons and they were built by. Porsche wasn’t there? Some shtick like, like Porsche brake calibers. He had one of those, and I remember he offered it to me for 10 grand. It was under 10 grand. It was like 9, 9, 9 5 or what? That was what he, what he wanted for it.

And I remember saying to him at the time, you know, that’s reasonable. I just don’t have that money to give you for it. And looking back, that was. [00:48:00] Absolute steal of a deal. Not that I’d have the car now, ’cause I’d have had it when I left England and it would’ve gone at that time. And then I’d been more sad to have let it go.

I probably would’ve had to let it go for less than I paid him for it. ’cause I’d have probably cured up the wheels and driven the shit out of it and it not be worth What was That is true before I uh,

Mark Gammie: are

Jon Summers: they the ones that had the

Mark Gammie: little plaque inside the cabin telling you what number it was and stuff?

Dunno. I never looked at the ones that were built by Porsche. Some of them

Jon Summers: did have that. I never looked at the car. Oh. Probably was never looked at the car. Can’t believe we talked so much about Howdy. Given that you and I are generally like, fuck those things ’cause of the Understood. Yeah. Generally speaking, I mean, producer Eric will say that producer, Eric’s very disappointed by the Ur Quatro, like the original Quatro.

He reckons that’s a like a don’t meet your heroes. Kind of a thing. I mean, I don’t know. Yeah, I mean, I just, I just think if I, if you think about the Ur Quatro, like an early Audi Quatro and you compare it with [00:49:00] Sierra Cosworth, there’s just no comparison in my mind between what I’d wanna drive and, and, and I should say, you and I don’t need to have this conversation, but, but dear listeners, not the three door.

Guy with the big wing that you are thinking of. Mark and I are thinking of the four door sapphire cosworth, which is Sapphire cozy. Yeah. Yeah. But actually did pack a little bit more horse, but in the early years people didn’t know what they were looking at with the sapphires. So you really did have something that was, looked like it was, they

Mark Gammie: were, they weren’t really very Q car when you look back at ’em, but they were more, way more Q car than the whale tail two door one.

Jon Summers: Yeah, way more. Yeah. And then, but of course by the era that the Escort Cosworth launched. By that era. That was the era that they were being used by robbery for robberies and in ram raids and Yeah. And all that. Uh, and the cache just grew in their coolness. Yeah. Yeah. And, and you couldn’t get [00:50:00] insurance could you, by the, like the escort Cosworth.

If you were like 25 years old and living in London, you could not insure an escort Cosmo

Crew Chief Brad: looking,

Jon Summers: looking back, it’s not hard to see why, because. Every OIC under the sun. Mm-hmm. Knew how to hot wire a Ford Esco and fundamentally. That part of an escort Cosworth was exactly the same as, you know, every other bit of it.

There was no, yeah,

Mark Gammie: yeah. The door locks that you could screwdriver on your mom’s 1.3. You could still do the same door locks on the escort cosworth, couldn’t you? So, you know, it’s uh

Jon Summers: oh on, on that kind of theme, right the other day. This is a while ago now, but this is a story worth sharing. It was in the area where I was struggling with my, uh, with my hip.

So, uh, I booked this like, you know, massage downtown. I don’t wanna use the buses ’cause there’s always like homeless people. Pissing and puking and, you know, just, I just don’t want [00:51:00] to interact with that shit. I’d like, that was like, that was years ago. That’s not how I’m going to interact now. So, but at the same time, to do like a Waymo backwards and forwards for 30 bucks.

I’ll do it the first time, but the second time I’m just like, you know, I’m gonna do it myself. So I zoomed down there on the moped, of course, as, as you, as you would. And then, uh, whilst. At some point during the massage process, lost the fucking key, didn’t I? So that really fucking ruled. But it was all right ’cause uh, I, I came home and, uh, got the truck and a ramp and just went and got the moped and loaded it in the back of the truck and brought it home and was like, whatever.

And I priced up and I bought another lock barrel with a key, but it was gonna be really fucking annoying to have to change the lock barrel and, and all of that. And then I noticed on my keyboard just over there in the corner of the room hanging up, there was some spare keys that had a fob on that. You know, it seemed [00:52:00] like they’d come with the zoomer.

So although I had lost the original key, there was another couple of keys that were cut. Lo and behold, I put them in the, and and they worked perfectly. So who knew I had the spare keys all along. I could have just way mowed home, got the spare key and way mowed back and fired the, uh, fired the thing up.

So that was lucky. ’cause uh, they didn’t look like they were exactly the same, but they obviously came with it. And that was enough to, they won’t open the seat, but I’d already disabled that the seat lock had already like, jammed up, so I just put some cardboard in it. And so just. It goes up and down rather.

That

Crew Chief Brad: rather

Mark Gammie: nice. Well, actually, well that’s one of the things actually I’m looking forward to on the side. ’cause I’ve, I was looking at a few different mopeds in the last few weeks, just as sort of additional thing. One of the things about the little village we’re moving to is it’s, it’s about a mile or two.

Outside of like the nearest town, and it’s not a very big town, but it’s a proper little English village with like, you know, 50 or so houses in it, something like that. And it, the town nearby is a few, you know, couple of thousand [00:53:00] people, but like not big, but the Tesco is right at the top. The Maori story is right at the top, multi, um, sort of, um, thing is right there.

So nipping out to get like a few beers or a bottle of wine or something on a Sunday is just a little five minute moped away. So I was, I quite out the idea of just having a little moped to just zip and zip back? Yeah, I can. Our back garden will have enough room for me to have the gazebo up. Next to the garage.

So I can have that up a lot of the time, especially in the winter. So I can bring stuff outta the garage and work on it in the daylight. But with the gazebo keeping me dry, dude, I, I love the sound of this new place. Yeah, I love the, uh, so the other thing I’m gonna buy, I decided, you know, those big ass metals dishes that you can buy to burn wood.

In the garden. Yeah. We’ve seen those big, those copper things that Goodwood always have ’em at the outside events. Right. Whether it’s warm or cold. Anyway, there’s always wood burning and you are always like, oh, bit of an air fieldy kind of place, isn’t it? And yeah, it’s a bit chilly in the wind, so you’re always quite glad of them.

But I was scoping one of those for exactly [00:54:00] that sort of outdoor, working on the bikes and stuff. I don’t like those chimney things. ’cause like you. I don’t wanna burn outdoor heater stuff. I’m not trying to take the, you know, the planet’s burning down fast enough without me getting behind it and giving it aho, you know, but a bit of wood burning is, is like, you know, it’s quite a nice thing.

Anyway. You can get like reclaimed wood and shit from nearby and stuff. It doesn’t need to be a prime mahogany or anything. I’m not flying it in from South America, so I’m, yeah, the, the, the facility for me to fettle with additional unrequired machinery outside is, uh, enticing me into, into cruising bike trader for more things.

And of course, bikes have the advantage that you can fit more things in. Yeah, they really do have that event. Mm-hmm. And there’s a proper side gate, like a sort of full on sort of farm gate style five bar sort of thing on the side. Wooden one that you, I can, you know, that you can get through to get down to the side of the house by the garage.

So yeah, my brain is already filling up the spare space with vehicles. I don’t yet own

Jon Summers: good news, mark. Mm-hmm. [00:55:00] Well that note. Thank you for your time, mark. Pleasure. Thank you. Drive through.

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